Is it just a coincidence that a man commits nine of 10 cases of death caused by domestic violence in the developed world
WPI
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The_Walrus
Pro - http://www.doctor-dark.co.uk
- 2006-08-12 @ 01:32:19
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nan29
- http://afemaleguest.blog.co.uk
- 2006-08-12 @ 02:23:30
I agree with you, we've got to see the real statistics first, then do more investigation on it.
In Indonesia, of course domestic violence does happen now and again. However, it doesn't reach humber 9 from 10.
And sometimes, what we call violence, perhaps to other women it is not violence at all, only coz they view it from different perspective.
I once read a paper research done in one ethnic group in Indonesia. Some women face domestic violence from their husbands. As a result, some of them cannot enjoy having sex with their husbands. However, some of them still can enjoy doing that, one thing that to me is illogical. But, if they say that they still enjoy doing that with the man who have done violence to them, what can I say? -
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varshakale
- 2006-08-12 @ 12:21:08
So walrus you have problem just with statistics? But if it is true will it be just coincindence?
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varshakale
- 2006-08-12 @ 13:09:20
Yes it is true, benchmarks of violence in the eyes of women of different culture are different. But any disturbance leading to death is violence.
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- http://soulsearchingastrology.blog.ca
- 2006-08-12 @ 02:40:59
I think it has something to do with the fact that men have much higher testosterone levels than women - this can naturally predispose them to more violent behaviour, whereas women's hormones predispose us to more nurturing, life enhancing behaviour.
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varshakale
- 2006-08-12 @ 12:31:00
So it is not at all coincidence Linda.
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Harrshabhagra
- 2006-08-12 @ 08:48:39
Firstly drop the statastical data. it is rarely correct and seldom is agreeable between two people.
Think about it this way..
"Man" like women are "ANIMALS" we are just like to think we are not because we have developed the N-Bomb and gone to the moon. But are still "ANIMALS" just a lil smarter
Animals fight and nothing will change that.
in Animals the male always fight more that the femals.. why i dont know. a biologist will say .. its testostrone or somethng like that, i dont know
So its an inherent for us to fight and kill each other.. we just like it, where? i dont know-
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varshakale
- 2006-08-12 @ 12:52:30
So it is not at all just coincidence. Should women be trained and armed to protect themselves?
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safriz
- http://www.conspiror.blog.co.uk
- 2006-08-12 @ 10:15:54
This is because many women can't accept the natural fact,that most men are physically stronger than them.
It's the emotional attachment of a man with a woman,which will make him to stay calm,and listen to her in case there is a violent argument.
when dealing with a furious creature which is stronger than her,she should take evasive measures,such as,not trying to argue more with him and make him more angry.
When the emotional attachment of a man to a woman is gone,and then they argue,it's then a fight between a stronger and a weaker species.
Women involved should appreciate that.
If someone is willing to perform a research in domestic violence and causes of physical assaults,they should somehow record the arguments given by men and the women,when they are fighting or arguing on something.
IN most cases the things that women say during an argument are far more insane and non-diplomatic than a man.
Women who are regularly victims of domestic violence from different men,should be given some training in conflict management,and how to talk.
In cases where a woman has been victimised from one man,and then changed partner,she will most probably be a victim again.
It can be a case that all man entering into relation with these women are psyco.Or the more logical approach to this is that may be these women have some serious behavior problems,and should be treated for this.
While most activist will throw all blame on men and come up with a one line solution "MEN SHOULD NOT DO THIS"...it really doesn't work.
The problem is there and should be solved by taking into account both gender's physical and mental characteristics.-
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varshakale
- 2006-08-12 @ 12:43:12
So if women cannot change their natural behaviour men are likely to kill them.
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mf_london
- http://twitter.com/emmeffe2
- 2006-08-12 @ 12:58:44
Undoubtely there are very annoying women out there but I don't condone violence in the first place, any kind of violence. From what I've heard and seen not all domestic violence is a direct result of arguments. Also some of these cases also include violence towards children, boys and girls, not only women, which I find quite disturbing.
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varshakale
- 2006-08-12 @ 13:03:04
Many times men are equally annoying but still they are not killed by women, is it again coincidence?
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mf_london
- http://twitter.com/emmeffe2
- 2006-08-12 @ 13:26:58
Everyone can be potentially annoying and when two people live together they are bound to get in each other's nerves, that's a fact. Obviously it is not a coincidence for some of the reasons already stated. But I don't want to blame it all on hormones, it is at least partly also a cultural thing.
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varshakale
- 2006-08-12 @ 14:05:14
But it seems to have occured in all cultures only with minor difference in proportions.
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mf_london
- http://twitter.com/emmeffe2
- 2006-08-12 @ 15:04:40
I'm not an anthropologist and I cannot come up with examples of cultures with a different set of values, that does not mean there have not been although all cultures (without mentioning religions) now dominant show that pattern. At the same time, I don't believe or I don't want to believe that is all down to biology, genes or hormones, that's too fatalistic and also quite dangerous as you can then justify any supremacy in that way, as it has been done in several occasions.To say for instance that all men are born aggressive while all women are born with a desire to nurture is the same argument used by those that think that all men should go out to hunt (metaphorically speaking) and all women should stay at home to look after the babies.
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varshakale
- 2006-08-12 @ 17:57:12
No, no I don't disagree you that this behaviour of men and women has cultural or social roots alongwith biological. I am only saying, it is not limited to any single or group of cultures but rather it is cross cultural phenomena and no culture in the world has stand exception to it in some form or other.
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mf_london
- http://twitter.com/emmeffe2
- 2006-08-12 @ 10:27:28
It reminds me of that campaign in the UK a few years back to chance the way women were convicted when they killed their husbands. As men normally killed their women quite often on the spur of the moment by using sheer force they normally get charged with manslaughter not murder. These women had actually been charged of murder because they had to plan how to kill their husbands who often were the perpetrators of domestic violence. I remember one that waited for her husband to be asleep covered him with fuel and set fire to him. If I remember well he was a violent man. So partly what you stated would be caused by the fact that men are stronger therefore more likely to do physical damage, some will have alcohol in the scenario, there are still some that believe is their right to beat up their wifes and some men are still very insecure=jealous. Talking about domestic violence in general I read that there is an increase of women beating up their husbands but it is difficult to gauge the extent of the problems as most of it is probably unreported as not many men will admit that they are beaten up at home. Generally figures for domestic violence tend to be inaccurate. In Europe, for instance, there are many cultural and legal differences between countries. Looking at the raw figures Scandinavia normally comes on top but arguably this is caused by women being more independent and confident and willing to report any violence and by society being generally more supportive. In Southern Europe where there is an appearance of 'happy families', in reality there is also stigma attached to domestic violence, the belief that women probably deserved it and lack of support from society, the rest of the family and the police. Therefore many women probably just put up with it.
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safriz
- http://www.conspiror.blog.co.uk
- 2006-08-12 @ 10:47:32
You are right.But you will appreciate that toching is not necessary to damage someone for life.
Many women do this to men.By their words and behaviour they wreck themIt's in many cases the company of a woman which makes a previously ok man,violent and opressive.Mostly because these women want their partner man to be just by standers ,looking at them,while these women do whatever they want with a shared home,kids and in tun a shared life.They fail to share ,and the care factor evaporates,and violence kicks in.
I do appreciate that women are extremely difficult to handle,if they don't want to seek a solution.
I have seen loads of women complaining abou many problems in their life,but rarely coming up with a solution.
It's true that for most women putting up with it is the best thing.
They rarely address the problem in it's start.Women burn like a cigaret,without smoke.Her behaviour deteriorates due to happening,and rarely they clearly say to a man , what they want him to do.
The man who are violent are in many caes lost men who couldn't guess,what their partner wanted,and things went wrong.
I suggest women should be more understandable to men by clearly telling them how they feel about them,and what they want.Not all the time,letting him guess,as the man may come up with a wron guess.This is the main cause of insecure,jealosy.-
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varshakale
- 2006-08-12 @ 12:59:36
So it is not at all just coincidence and you suggest if women dont mend ways they are likely to be killed by physically powerful men spacies.
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- 2006-08-12 @ 13:13:14
Firstly, Varsha's statistics are more verifiable than posters who reply as, 'visitor', 'guest'.
You doubt 9 out of 10 violent deaths against women are caused by men? Maybe its all a statistical exagerration and in reality only 8 out of 10, or perhaps a feminist conspiracy and only 7 out of 10, and some women agree with a good beating dont they, so its actually 6 out of 10, and dont forget women deserve it anyway so its plainly just 5 out of 10, and deprivation doesnt count as a cause of death so to be fair its only 4 out of 10, and most men didnt really do it the woman made them do it, so 3 out of 10 is more accurate, and God tells men to do it, it wasnt the mans own will, so its only 2 out of 10, and rumor has it that the womans family bribe police to blame the man, so 1 out of 10 its more fair. And hey! Lets excuse the men who simply enjoy it, its fun to be a violent sadist! Who cares.. they are only women! Theres no such thing as domestic violence, its a Western liberal construct, so 0 out of 10.
I have saw enough in my life to appreciate the prevalence and seriousness of domestic violence against women, and the social conditions that precipitate it. Not always visible. But It is real. It is Widespread.
As long as systems and traditions of male privelige are in authority, that entitle men effective ownership of women at evey level of society, then, widespread violence against women will continue to prevail.
Religion has always been intrumental in the oppression of women, mandated by scriptural myth and mysticism.
The macho politics of the far right and far left is another ideological culprit, lionising the hero, or 'the struggle', and tacitly approving of violence against women.
In Catholic Mexico, violence against women is so endemic that men see it as a conjugal duty. In Ciudad Juaraz around 400 women have been killed since 1993.
In Islamic Saudi Arabia, the wealthy land of Muhammed and Medina - the Moral Police Force openly beat women in the street. indeed, I spoke to a soldier from my home town, who recently witnessed such an incident while serving in Saudi.
We can discuss the biology and nature of male violence. Ok. And we can learn and interpret various things from what such study and discussion may tell us. Ok.
Nevertheless, human biology is ex opere operato with human volition. Our purpose isnt simple obedience of biology. And biology varies from person to person anyway. Biology or Nature, isnt an ordinance or a panacea in human anthropology.
We are uniquely rational, intelligent, reflective, empathetic beings. If I can put it in this metaphor, we are as much like the divine as we are the beast. (and as a metaphor, this applies whether your Christian Muslim Hindu Atheist Humanist, or whatever)
On the basis of culture and intelligence, the human mind has constructed societies that vary widely in their structures and values. Some societies have been constructed to privelige the elite - whether clerical, political, royal, or just men as the head of the family institution.
Other societies, have gradually evolved around values of egality, liberty, merit.
In many societies, it isnt Nature which is the primary binding oppressor of women, but Society itself - The very institutions and laws of society mandating the systematic subjugation of women. Its those laws and institutions which women of courage like Varsha are campaigning to change. Its that patriarchal mandate which women like Varsha will remove, and have removed.
Removing institutions of subjugation and violence, will enable women to have greater access to a wider range of opportunities consistent with their abilities. And well, the sky is the limit!
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varshakale
- 2006-08-12 @ 14:02:05
Love you Blighty. You have placed the issue quite articulately with proper logic.
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steinberg
- 2006-08-14 @ 19:25:54
Well written.
I was flicking through an old copy of 'National Geograghic'. I cant remember where it was, somewhere near Pakistan.
Well the women were generally beautiful there, from the pictures. The men, I have to say had sadly been hit with the ugly stick.
A regular occurance, is a woman gets asked out, and says no.
I dont want to go on a date, basically.
And next thing the girl is having potent acid thrown over them.
The damage is sickening. takes the skin off, kills the hair, blinds the eyes, burns the ears off. The acid destroys anying it touches on the girls body, damage permanent.
and nothing happens regarding the law enforcement. absolutely sod all. The men are not even investigated in most cases. never mind taken to court.
The pictures of the women are truley horrific.
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varshakale
- 2006-08-14 @ 20:56:40
In spite of this cruelty forced on young girls the society largely blame the victims and says there must be some provocation. However anything can be provocative. Looking beautiul can be grave provocation for men per se.
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steinberg
- 2006-08-14 @ 21:16:45
We had a girl on the news not long back here (England).
A girl was stabbed to death by her brother, for wanting see a man who wasnt a muslim.
Happens every now and again, but I dont think you hear half of what is going on with young girls and there muslim families. -
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safriz
- http://www.conspiror.blog.co.uk
- 2006-08-12 @ 15:16:49
Ok,then bein a feminist,activist,how do you sugest,we can stop this.?
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safriz
- http://www.conspiror.blog.co.uk
- 2006-08-12 @ 15:58:33
Once again i see all of you,lost.Typical.
You rarely suggest a solution,always point out problems.
This only works as a sympathy gathering stunt.But improves nothing.
I know i am very stubborn and i am a perpitually angry man.
May be because i have seen enough of this all.I have never been involved in any domestic violence,but i have witnessed a very horrible incident some 25 years ago.
Unfortunately i am still angry about it.
I condemn all beatings or killings done,between partners.
At the same time i ask for solutions.Gimme some!!
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varshakale
- 2006-08-12 @ 17:40:22
When one poses problem in proper perspective solutions can emerge. It is not possible to suggest solution unles there is agreement about what exactly the real issue is.
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Harrshabhagra
- 2006-08-16 @ 09:33:35
varshakale you said "So if women cannot change their natural behaviour men are likely to kill them."
After you have post ... i dont know how many Blogs and must have spoken in so many groups etc as you are a politician... and the stuff above, is that the best you could come up with? But dont take my work for it.. re-read our other reply to comments too.
You have hammered on a single point not realising that you have'nt gotten very far from you first reply to the last. No twist.. no sway to any direction. And using fancy phrases and little girls as exaples dosent or has'nt got you very far has it.
"...So it is not at all just coincidence. Should women be trained and armed to protect themselves? "
I strictly beleive. If you have a problem with the way things are happening around you.. (i am including all information read from other comments posted above)
You could leave Earth.
You could stand between the "Mans" knife and the young "girl"
OR
Pick up and defend ur self. (But stop crying about it if you got hurt)
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varshakale
- 2006-08-19 @ 19:58:35
Rather then leaving earth I would like to claim half of it. Surely I understood your feelings which I also share, but I think when woman cry it is step towards 'war cry'.
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Firstly, is it true? Where did you get this figure? How can it be verified?
I just thought I would ask because far too many statements like this are not verifiable. If it can not be based on sound foundations, we may as well claim whatever we like....
Yes, I know there is a lot of violence against women. I know it is bad. We can not fight it by using unverifiable statistics.